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and this is weapons

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because we've gone there because we're

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in the uncomfortable territory for me of

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all of this stuff

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um I I do want you to talk about a term

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that you guys really coined

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um that is so interesting to me because

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of your background in as a scientist you

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know the hitchhiker effect the idea that

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when people have these experiences that

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many report that there's some sort of

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after effect or an effect that follows

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them for some time and we're not just

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talking lore you know talking over a

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campfire we're talking very serious life

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consequences physically and mentally to

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people who are heroic for our country

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and have had problems and and you have

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studied this you know people say you

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know they want to study different things

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about UFOs I'm always call them UFOs UAP

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cool but UFOs just looks cooler so UFOs

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there are trackable traceable biological

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implications to being in close proximity

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to the UAP or UFO

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and you guys did a lot of study that all

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septed extensive study on the biological

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negative even within the brain of human

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beings I don't know if it goes as far as

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into the genetics or DNA but there were

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things you could trace and track that

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you can talk about so The Hitchhiker

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effect break it down for me you guys

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what is that

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well I I guess the poster child for The

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Hitchhiker effect is is the guy we call

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Axelrod and as George has said maybe his

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name is going to change in the next

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while come out is what you mean yeah the

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book is actually right his name is gonna

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come out yeah so so I remember

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um sort of being right beside Axelrod on

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the Skinwalker Ranch in July of 2009 I

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was standing right beside him and um you

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know he was talking to his wife and his

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wife was sort of saying that there was

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weird stuff happening in the house I

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mean this was uh right after

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axelrod's experience on the on the

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property but to cut a very long story

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short what what what happened was

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um when Axelrod and his two Compadres

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who were on the property they had these

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very intense experiences on the property

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they flew back home to the east coast

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and they went to their their homes and

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axelrod's family started

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um experiencing

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all these paranormal events you know

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their teenage Sons would wake up and

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these black Shadows would be standing

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hovering over their beds sort of in a

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very threatening way they would wake up

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to go to the bathroom and they'd see

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these sort of black objects that would

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be in the hallways that were obviously

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black objects they weren't sort of a

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trick of the light

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and then one night sort of uh after this

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whole thing started erupting

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axelrod's wife was just turning off the

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lights in the kitchen

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that was overlooking their backyard and

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out of the corner of their of her eyes

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she caught a movement down in the in in

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the backyard and she saw this ridiculous

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Mythic semi-mythical creature of a of a

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what looked like a wolf standing on its

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hind legs leaning against a tree in the

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in her backyard and she was looking and

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she looked away she looked back it was

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still there I mean it was it was like

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something out of Mythology that she was

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looking at and she I mean she just

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turned off the light and went to bed I

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mean she was freaked out to the extent

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that she never said anything to her

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family about this so you so there's just

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tons of this right tons of this idea of

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a hitchhiker effect that it comes and

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like a virus infects your family and

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love loved ones and it follows you after

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like you go to the ranch or whatever the

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bigger picture people encounter Close

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Encounters of UFOs this hitchhiker

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effect okay but like okay ghost stories

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I don't know these people I don't

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believe it let's just say that's that's

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my perspective right right I'm just like

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ghost stories cool story don't care but

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you had actually physical traceable

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biological things that could be directly

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linked to these UFO or UAP encounters

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can you talk about any of that the

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things that well no you can trace yeah

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just to kind of finish off the the the

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that primary kind of example

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um the two sons were were in in the uh

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in the room uh near the backyard on the

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Saturday morning following her sighting

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and uh one of them lucks out and they

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see this upright creature Wolfman wolf

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wolf creature running quickly well

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actually it was standing still looking

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at them in a threatening way and then it

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took off heading for the tree line

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kicking up leaves as it went and two

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legs on two legs okay anatomically

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impossible so so the uh the whole idea

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that you know a dog I mean you see dogs

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in the circus getting up on their two

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legs and sort of tottering around this

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thing was moving fluidly at speed

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kicking up leaves as it went the family

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went out into the into the yard

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afterwards and they went over to the

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tree line where they had seen this and

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there were these obvious large claw

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marks on the tree trunk okay so was this

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a sort of a a trick of the mind or was

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kicking up the lead intelligence agency

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playing some sort of MK Ultra mind game

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on our intelligence agency folks I mean

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whatever it was it was leaving uh

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physical traces in the environment and

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that that's sort of a key part of this

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whole thing so we studied this this

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so-called hitchhiker effect and it was

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so common over time time you know we

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started tracking back to the original

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nid's days and we found that in some

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cases you know I remember

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um you know my wife remarking that you

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know there were people in the bedroom

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that sort of walking walking around the

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bedroom Robert Bigelow reported

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um a lot of activity in this household

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George Knapp had been on the property

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and I'm not going to deny weird shits

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you know look weird always happens

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around I'm sitting with you guys so the

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bottom line is that that we we

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investigated a lot of these people who

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had had The Hitchhiker effect and we

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found a small number of them were coming

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down with autoimmune diseases

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Hashimoto's thyroiditis Sovereign

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syndrome lupus

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um there was Graves disease there were

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there were other autoimmune diseases and

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from a a relatively small cluster of

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people who had endured this hitchhiker

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effect

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um

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there was a an interesting Spike or

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cluster it was disproportionate

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n is very small so the the N is pretty

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small so

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I would hesitate from uh

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publishing a scientific paper about this

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but the observations were that The

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Hitchhiker effect in many cases was

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associated with a flare-up of autoimmune

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diseases in one or more people in that

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household now

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one one other thing about the uh about

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The Hitchhiker effect is that it was not

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confined to skin marker wrench we had

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other UFO close encounter

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experiencers

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who had family and who had exactly the

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same kind of thing they went back to the

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east coast After experiencing very

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dramatic effects in say Oregon is one

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example that we put in the book

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skin workers of the Pentagon and they

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went back to the east coast and

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paranormal stuff flured up in the house

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so it's not only a Skinwalker Ranch

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specific phenomenon it's specific to

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certain intense close encounter effects

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and by the way that family The

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Hitchhiker family that were he was

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talking about the kids would see orbs

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floating around in the in their rooms

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inside the house there were tricks where

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the dog ends up on the roof I mean there

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was a lot of really strange things like

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the original stuff from Skinwalker

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wrench the same people saying and 13

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years later it's still going on for that

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family 13 years right so but it's you

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have so many examples of this right that

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I'm aware of that that you've tracked

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that you've kind of named it this term

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because it's just something you couldn't

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ignore you know even if my mind can't

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accept it you can't ignore it as as a

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reporter as a scientist that's happening

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so but there's more right there there's

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specific things known about the negative

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biological effects on the human body if

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they get into close proximity often

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cases with it with an actual UFO let me

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let me preface this too because we just

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had this new report come out a couple of

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weeks ago from odni in which they said

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we haven't found any cases where anybody

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was been harmed by being in proximity to

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UFO which suggests maybe they should get

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in their car drive to the DIA and look

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because you guys found a lot of cases

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yeah and and and within the database of

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we we called it the data warehouse

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because uh Jacques Valley designed this

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capella data warehouse to house multiple

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subsets of databases so there were 11

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separate databases within this data

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warehouse that was transmitted to the

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defense intelligence agency in late 2010

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as a specific deliverable of the Osa

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program but within that database there

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is a subset of medical injury cases that

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allsop slash pass investigated

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you know there are two examples that I

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can think of right off of the book

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number one is a guy in Georgia

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whose son was outside playing

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um

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outside he was staying in the tent sort

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of with uh with some neighbors and um

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the dog started barking outside he went

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outside to check it out and he saw this

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large triangular object hovering above

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the house and he was

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um you know kind of really intrigued it

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was silent it was low and it was a

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classic black triangle sort of

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um a hundred it was like a hundred yards

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100 yards 100 yards so a very very large

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object and it was it had lights on it

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like flat flat or like pyramid in shape

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triangle well it was a

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from his perspective it was all he could

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see was the underneath the triangle from

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angle of observation we would say I mean

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it was it was difficult to tell that

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from from his angle but anyway he tried

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taking uh taking some uh photographs of

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it with his cell phone and I mean it was

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black against a black background so it

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was obviously not going to come out very

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well so he decided to light up the

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bottom of it with the flashlight that he

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had so he had a powerful flashlight so

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he went in into his house grabbed it and

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the thing was still there when he came

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out and he lit up the bottom of it with

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with a pretty powerful flashlight and

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almost instantly this blue

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intense blue light came from one of the

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apex of the triangles and blinded him to

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the extent that he turned around and

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crouched and sort of you know uh to

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protect himself blinded him completely

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but even when he was crouching he felt

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this Burning on his neck so he ran

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inside and sort of watched it from the

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vantage point of the house and the blue

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the this blue beam that had hit him was

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uh he he described it as I think a foot

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or a couple of foot in in diameter but

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it was a very intense light so you know

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he watched it and then this object took

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off really quickly

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um there were other objects associated

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with it he felt not good he woke up his

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whole neck was really badly sunburned

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his back was badly sunburned he had a

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metallic taste in his mouth

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had a severe headache felt nauseous he

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was interviewed by

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um by people from ASAP okay so the DIA

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he actually got to interview this guy

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and get into some of his metal we took

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photographs of a sunburn and uh took a

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lot of blood samples oh you were right

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there yeah I mean well we had to uh MD

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PhD Physicians who were on call

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basically

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um that were able to luckily travel to

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different places in the United States to

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investigate these kind of medical areas

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you got to get the report it's got to

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get to you you got to get there quick

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where you still got the summer and then

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follow it and then follow it over the

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long term and and wow and he was

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followed over multiple blood samples

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over over many many months he came down

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with a Litany of different uh medical

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issues including a phenomenon called

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castleman's disease which is which

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00:13:39,410 --> 00:13:36,600
involves sort of these spontaneous

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eruptions of tumors but they were not

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malignant tumors but eventually you know

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he sort of began to recover and so he

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00:13:50,509 --> 00:13:49,200
was followed over many many months over

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00:13:52,850 --> 00:13:50,519
a year

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um but the fact is he was his health

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00:13:57,889 --> 00:13:55,079
went really downhill after this event

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there were other cases in in our

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database that were even more so where

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you know people had came down with

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00:14:09,710 --> 00:14:06,320
cancer they had uh you know

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00:14:13,009 --> 00:14:09,720
after these close encounters with UFOs

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so the idea that you know there's no

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00:14:19,449 --> 00:14:16,380
physical or pathological or medical

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00:14:22,910 --> 00:14:19,459
injury cases associated with UFOs

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is counteracted by the database that's

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sitting on the shelves at the defense